Interview with Matt Tegenkamp

By Duncan Larkin

In the last 2K of the 2001 USA Junior Cross Country Championships, a relatively unknown Wisconsin freshman appeared alongside the heavily favored Dathan Ritzenhein. The runner outkicked Ritzenhein and eventually won the race. At the World Cross Country Championships a few weeks later, this same Wisconsin freshman placed fifth in the world in a race that was won by future world record-holder Kenenisa Bekele. Six years later, this runner, Matt Tegenkamp, 25, is no longer unknown: He went on to set the American record in the two-mile (8:07.7) at the Prefontaine Classic this year and has run the fourth fastest 5K ever by an American (13:04.90 in 2006), putting him within striking distance of becoming the second American to run under 13 minutes for that distance.

The past two years have been remarkable ones for Tegenkamp. Besides his 5K PR and his two-mile AR, he’s gone on to win the USA Indoor Championships 3000 meters in 2007 and has been the USA Outdoor runner-up twice in the 5000 METER?. (2006 and 2007); he’s also set five major PRs from 1500 meters to 5K.

Tegenkamp is a 2005 graduate of the University of Wisconsin, where he majored in human ecology. He is coached by Jerry Schumacher.

Mensracing spoke with Tegenkamp while he was home in Madison, Wisconsin, preparing to compete in the 5000 meters at the IAAF World Track & Field Championships in Osaka, Japan. Then men’s 5000-meter heats are on August 30 and the final is on September 2.

MensRacing.com: I’d like to start with the 3000-meter race in Stockholm that you ran earlier this month. I think you were in second place until the last lap, behind none other than [Kenenisa] Bekele. You ended up finishing a very respectable fourth; fractions of seconds separated places two through six. Tell me about that race.

Matt Tegenkamp: It was crazy. After the 1000-meter mark a collision happened and [Chris] Solinsky was taken out. In that whole process, one of the Kenyan guys kind of came in from lane two trying to get back on the rail and just tangled both of them up and that caused a whole bunch of guys to go down behind them. At that point I had just moved around those guys and so I was pretty happy about that. Soon after that point there were a lot of breaks that were happening in the race. Throughout most of the European season, I hadn’t been feeling all that great. I just never had my legs under me. In Stockholm, I was starting to feel some bounce back in my legs and things were really starting to come around. I was feeling good and went up near the front. Right after the mile, Bekele took off and opened up the gap. Immediately, you could tell the rest of the front Kenyans were just going to be fighting for second. The pace then kind of fartleked from the mile to the finish. I felt good and didn’t want to take it from too far out—I kind of wanted to gear up and just run it out with them in the last 400 to 500 [meters]. I felt good and took [second place] until roughly 600 meters to go and held it until the last 70 meters. I couldn’t quite hold it until the end. But it was an awesome last race to have before the World Championships.

MR: I think you ran your 5000-meter PR in Stockholm last year: 13:04. Does Stockholm hold some sort of significance to you when you compete there? Does it give you superstitious feelings when you are on that particular track?

MT: The first year that I was out of school, I went there and ran a 7:43 in the 3000 meters, which was a huge PR at the time. I ran the 13:04 and that was a huge PR as well, so, yeah, anytime that I can make that meet, I’m going to go there. I’m not sure if it’s a superstition or not. You try to put yourself at ease when you are over there [Europe]. That’s the place where I run well, so if they have the right races, I’m going to be there.

MR: Craig Mottram has talked about the respect that the East African runners give him, calling him the Big Mazungo, and he says that most East African guys say that the majority of non-African runners have hearts like a chicken. Do you ever feel intimidated by [the East Africans]? Along those lines, looking at recent performances by Americans, you’ve got [Ryan] Hall breaking the American record in the half-marathon, Alan Webb breaking the American record in the mile, and you got yourself breaking the American record in the two-mile. Do you feel like America has turned the corner in distance running and is back on the world scene?

MT: I don’t know if it’s so much about fear of the East African runners and whether or not Americans can compete against them. You definitely have to show them respect. When four guys in front of you have [5000-meter] PRs of sub-13, it’s not like you can just go out there and run away from them, you have to have a smart race planned and respect what they can do. When it comes down to it, in the last 1200 meters, when the race really starts, when you are grinding it out, I’m in it to fight and win it and I think, going back to the Stockholm race, [Chris] Solinsky was going for the win. It’s terrible how he ended his season with a fall, but all the guys in that race, when you try to pass them, they throw an elbow; they kind of slap at you a little bit; they cut out on you and cut back in on you; you just can’t give them anything. You can’t be afraid to kind of give a shove back to let them know that you are there. If someone is trying to take your spot, you put your arm out and don’t let them back in. That’s kind of the way things work. Over the years that’s what I’ve tried to take away and learn.

There’s definitely a resurgence in American distance running. How many guys have the “A” standard for next year in just the 5K alone? This year I think was 14 or 15 guys that have the “A” standard, and in 2004 there was one. Up and down the board, everyone’s getting better at the top level. More kids are taking it seriously. Obviously there’s more support there with the shoes companies. I think coaches are starting to figure it out as well—there is life after college—and not always trying to burn the kids out by making them run every season and double at all the track meets. I think it’s going to take a while; there’s still a lot of work to do. I think some of the guys, including myself are kind of showing the younger guys the way.

MR: Is that whole jockeying for position/lack of etiquette that you described in these races more prevalent on the world scene than say the collegiate scene?

MT: Yeah, it’s way different than the collegiate scene. It’s only the inexperienced guys that are coming over; the very young Kenyans or Moroccans. They just have no clue. They don’t really understand what pace is; they don’t understand about getting in line and waiting. That’s what they learn as they get in more of those races, it seems. That’s just my take on things. The more experienced they are, the more they understand to get in line and let the rabbit do their job. I can totally understand if there was no rabbit in a race and everyone’s kind of fending for themselves. In a race with a rabbit, you have to bide your time and wait until the race really starts instead of running all over the race for the first part of it.

MR: I wanted to next go to your American record in the two-mile. You ran a 4:01 closing mile there. Tell me about it. How’d it go down? Did you feel that you were in the shape then to break [Alan] Webb’s record?

MT: It was pretty tough. A lot of the work that we had been doing had been strength-based. Obviously, the focus was on the World Championships and the Prefontaine Classic was early in the summer. I’ve always run well off of the strength [training]. You don’t really know where your fitness it. I was a little hesitant going into the race, trying not to worry too much about the time. I knew the field was loaded. I knew I was going to be right around where I needed to be. I just got in there and started it off pretty conservative. I felt like I could have run faster, but I had only run three 15[00-meter]s before that and they were all 3:40. Getting out there and trying to run two miles and going through each mile in 4:03/4:04, it was going to be a shock to the system. I got in there and bided my time. As the race moved on, it felt very comfortable, and with 1200 [meters] to go, I just really started moving. After the race, I was pumped at the time, but angry at letting [Tariku] Bekele and [Craig] Mottram go. I was definitely running just as fast as they were, but I let the break happen and didn’t go with it. That’s where the hesitation with fitness came in and held me back a bit.

MR: I’d like to get your thoughts on plateaus next. Bob Kennedy dealt with them in his career. In 2006, you had a breakout year. You’ve had a great year this year too, and not to disparage it or to say that you’ve necessarily leveled off, but it can be argued that you went through a larger spike in performance in 2006 versus 2007. What are your thoughts regarding plateaus? Do you feel like you are in a plateau now? If yes, how are you going to address it?

MT: I understand the question, but when I hear people talking about plateaus it kind of annoys me. For me, I can understand where [the question comes] from, because all of last year, almost every time I stepped on the track, I was running a PR. Everybody was looking for the 5K [record to be broken], because that is like what the mile was for [Alan] Webb. Everyone wanted to see him take down that mile. For me and maybe others, people just want to see that 5K [record] go down. So far this year, I’ve run [a] 3:34.2 [1500m] and an 8:07 in the two-mile and I ran six-tenths of a second away from my 3K PR and it’s a World Championship year. There’s still five weeks of the season left; there’s a 3K in Zurich after the World Championships; there’s a 5K in Brussels after the World Championships.

People need to understand that there are more important things than always worrying about time. The times will eventually come, but this year, we were focusing on World Championships to try and get as much experience as possible in the big races—working on some developmental stuff obviously—staying with lower distance, trying to get my body used to running faster, getting more comfortable at doing that. I’ve only run basically one serious 5K and that was at Lausanne and it went terribly. It just was not the right place to run a 5000. So I think people are a little bit misguided in what they are seeing as a plateau; I just really haven’t raced my event so far this year. A lot of that was due to me focusing on the World Championships 5000 meters, getting the development in—going to that meet and doing something that hasn’t been done in a long, long time for a U.S. runner. It’s not just making it to the final, it’s to compete very well in the final. We just had a very different focus this year versus last year: It was basically extending the season and trying to compete best as possible at the major championship.

MR: You are a very versatile runner and had mentioned the 5K record earlier. Would you characterize yourself primary as a 5K runner?

MT: Definitely.

MR: Regarding Bob Kennedy’s 5K record [12:58.21], if you knew what you needed to do to break it, you’d do it. Are you going to keep working at it and let the times come like you said, or are you going to apply any different approach when it comes to workouts, weight lifting, rest, recovery, or stretching?

MT: I put complete trust in Jerry [Schumacher’s] coaching. The workout side of things, I don’t question what we do. I give him feedback how I’m feeling and he can take it from there. That’s one of the reasons I chose school here and continue to train here—he has a very long-term view. He knows how he’s going to get there. Workout wise, the times will keep improving. I have no doubt about that. Physically, going through injuries, the thing I learned is some of the core strength—focusing on making the abs and the hips, your core, very strong. I’ve worked with Pascal Dobert for two and a half years. He works with the team here. We went through programs twice a week—40 minutes or so, trying to strengthen that area up. I don’t get too sore after those types of workouts anymore. I try to do lifting with the legs, trying to make those stronger; I try to do some sprint drills, working with Andrew Rock.

MR: For your lifting routines, are you doing a lot of reps or more strength-type work?

MT: Usually with the core stuff, we are lifting just body weight.

MR: No heavier weights then?

MT: No. Core is a combination of stretching. It’s very similar to Pilates or yoga. I think it’s very useful and has helped me out a lot.

MR: At Wisconsin, you struggled with injuries. I read in a past interview that to deal with this, Coach Schumacher switched up your training to doing shorter, more frequent runs. In the interview, you said that worked. Are you still doing this?

MT: When I came in to Wisconsin as a freshman, Jerry [Schumacher] had been here for two years I think. And he was still trying to figure out his coaching philosophy—breaking the mold on what he had been taught, kind of just combining different things. It took us a few years to understand that. He needed us to kind of mature and understand where he wanted to go. It took a couple years. When he came in at first, he had us running a lot of miles off of singles. It worked for a while and then it started breaking me down. A lot of it didn’t have to do with Jerry. I was doing the training wrong. When you do a lot of miles, you have to take your easy days. I very rarely took easy days and just hammered my runs. When you are doing intense workouts, your body breaks down really fast. As Jerry grew as a coach and we matured as athletes, he kind of switched the whole team—it wasn’t just me—and molded his coaching philosophy. He kind of did a 180 and we weren’t just doing singles. He added doubles in and it was up to five times a week—depending on the athlete and what type of mileage they were doing. We worked out twice a week—up to four times a week, getting to see the track, getting your body used to it. It was a big switch, it was definitely needed, but that’s the kind of something Jerry’s really good at. Although the overall philosophy stays the same, there are always tweaks in his training. It allows the athlete to not get too comfortable and to stay excited, because there’s always something new that they’ve never done before. It’s definitely worked out.

MR: What are your feelings about Worlds? What are your thoughts going into it?

MT: I was in Europe for six weeks. When I got back home, I had 12 days to relax. Only in the past couple of days, I started looking forward to the World Championships. I think a lot of that is due to how long of a plane trip is going to be. I know once I get there, it’s going to be an awesome experience. I know I am fit. I haven’t run a trials race since my senior year in college. I think if I go there and run the way I’m supposed to and do what I have been doing, I should make the final—hopefully get in there with the big guys and mix it up and see what I can do. It is the final of the World Championship and if I do get into the final, I want to go there and really mix it up. I want to run a smart race, but when the time is right, I’ll be up there in the front, trying to compete with the best.

Interview conducted August 16, 2007, and posted August 23, 2007.